Vancouver’s Mayor, Ken Sim, is a real Bitcoin fanatic who’s doing his half to get Vancouver’s metropolis council in addition to its residents to see what he sees with regards to Bitcoin.
And his efforts are beginning to bear fruit.
On December 11, 2024, the Vancouver Metropolis Council greenlit a movement Mayor Sim ready to start out making Vancouver a extra Bitcoin-friendly metropolis.
The movement directs metropolis workers to discover the concepts of Vancouver establishing a strategic bitcoin reserve in addition to accepting taxes and metropolis charges in bitcoin.
In my dialog with Mayor Sim, we mentioned the passing of this movement in addition to a few of his deeper philosophical ideas about Bitcoin.
We additionally touched on what Bitcoin adoption in Vancouver would seem like in an ideal world, his personal journey down the proverbial Bitcoin rabbit gap and why Bitcoin can convey monetary hope to the residents of Vancouver at a cut-off date when many are struggling to make ends meet.
The Vancouver Metropolis Council just lately handed your movement to make Vancouver a extra Bitcoin-friendly metropolis.
On a private stage, although, when you may wave a magic wand and allow no matter stage of Bitcoin adoption you see slot in Vancouver, what would that seem like?
I’ve bought to provide you a caveat right here. These are my very own private views. Now we have a reasonably unimaginable staff on the Metropolis of Vancouver, they usually’ve been tasked to discover. So, it is not as if I can actually affect the staff and inform them “You need to do that and that.”
In an ideal world, the very first thing we’d do is add to a strategic reserve. The second factor could be permitting folks to transact with bitcoin with out triggering capital good points tax occasions and to simply accept funds within the type of bitcoin. Tax regulation throughout not simply Canada, however within the U.S. and lots of different jurisdictions, nonetheless hasn’t caught up, so each time you transact with bitcoin, there’s a capital good points tax charge, which could be very cumbersome.
The third factor is that we begin the dialog and we bust the myths round narratives like Bitcoin is dangerous for the surroundings. That is all hogwash, proper? Bitcoin is definitely going to assist us save the surroundings.
Plus, it gives us with an immutable document and it truly provides to a stage of transparency we have by no means seen within the historical past of humankind. Having that included into our techniques could be nice.
You spoke about this course of of training folks about Bitcoin on Natalie Brunell’s present. You stated you “bathe them with love and then you definately hit them with info.” Are you able to give an instance of what this appears to be like like?
There’s lots of resistance with Bitcoin, particularly because it pertains to its perceived results on the surroundings. Individuals hear this narrative that it is dangerous for the surroundings, and it is like, “Nicely, wait a second…”
I am an environmentalist, and I do know that when you power organizations throughout the planet to do stuff that they don’t seem to be incentivized to do, nothing’s going to occur. Whereas when you incentivize them — when you construct in a reward system — it’s superb.
So, what do we all know? Nicely, we flare pure fuel as a by-product of oil manufacturing, and if we truly seize that and repurpose it for Bitcoin mining, it’s truly good for the surroundings. Identical with capturing methane that seeps from the bottom.
Additionally, with various or inexperienced power sources, be it wind energy or solar energy, the place the economics typically do not pan out to construct these tasks, you present somebody with a assured buyer within the type of Bitcoin miners, and the economics work and this stuff get constructed. So, it is web constructive for the surroundings.
There’s additionally this false narrative that nefarious issues occur with Bitcoin. That is rubbish, proper? Money is untraceable. With Bitcoin, we’re speaking about an immutable document the place you may see each single transaction because the starting of time and you may catch folks on the on and off ramps.
A number of the narratives are literally the exact opposite of actuality, and so we have now to counter these narratives.
Primarily based on my expertise, it is easy to show somebody one thing, whereas it is so much more durable for folks to unlearn, and we’re within the means of serving to folks unlearn what they’ve discovered.
You have got referred to Bitcoin as the best invention in human historical past. Might you increase on that?
Our cash is damaged. Individuals cannot use it to retailer their power into the longer term. We’re on this rinse and repeat cycle. In Ray Dalio’s ebook The Altering World Order, he talks in regards to the rise and fall of the Dutch empire, the rise and fall of the British empire, the rise and, as he places it, fall of the U.S. empire. In case you agree with Dalio’s perspective, the purpose is that the cash’s damaged.
We should not have a reserve foreign money that is ever lasted. We maintain repeating historical past. However Bitcoin modifications all that. As everyone knows, you may’t mess with it, and you may’t manipulate it. It is a game-changer and once we lastly get onto the bitcoin commonplace — I feel it is a matter of when, not if — it may change how people work together with one another and the way nation states evolve.
You simply cited certainly one of Ray Dalio’s books, and I’ve heard you talk about the way you’ve additionally learn books like The Bitcoin Normal and Layered Cash. You’re additionally a buddy of Jeff Sales space’s. With all of the studying you’ve finished and the conversations you’ve had with Jeff, did you find yourself having a lightbulb second with Bitcoin or was it extra of a gradual studying course of?
Nicely, I had the alternative of the lightbulb second when my son Mitchell got here as much as me and stated “Dad, I wish to purchase bitcoin.” And I used to be like, “You contact that shit, and I will punch you within the throat.” Clearly, I wasn’t going to try this.
Then, I began seeing extra of it and had conversations with Jeff. So, I began to look into it, learn a bunch about it and went to a few conferences. My journey was similar to lots of different folks’s. I used to be utterly towards it after which I warmed as much as it and ultimately grew to become an evangelist.
I can not level to anyone level the place it was like, “Wow, there you go” and I went 180 levels the opposite approach. I do keep in mind although, I made my first $500 buy of bitcoin on November the 14th, 2020. The rationale it took me so lengthy was I needed to discover ways to use the app on which I purchased the bitcoin. It was all clunky — only a ache within the butt.
However I do not forget that day, as a result of once I lastly purchased it I believed, “Did I miss out?” I feel I purchased it at like 16 or 17 grand and it had run from like seven or eight grand the month earlier than. I used to be like, “Did I miss it?” I keep in mind Jeff saying, “No, you’re nonetheless tremendous early; we’re all nonetheless tremendous early.”
You’ve talked about how unaffordable housing in Vancouver is. Does bitcoin repair this?
Sure. Let me provide you with an instance. Now we have a small studio rental up in Whistler (a city north of Vancouver). After we purchased it, it will have value 17.2 bitcoin. That is about 4 years in the past. By way of {dollars}, the property is up 36%, however when it comes to bitcoin, it is down one thing like 85%. As of at present, it prices like 3.3 bitcoin to purchase it.
By the best way, I am not giving funding recommendation. I am simply speaking a few theoretical, if this performs out the way it may. If sooner or later within the not so distant future, you’ll purchase a home in Vancouver for a bitcoin, what meaning is you may actually purchase a home for about US$106,000 or about CA$150,000 when you purchased a bitcoin at present.
I am not telling folks to take out a mortgage to purchase bitcoin — very removed from it. Go search monetary recommendation. However when you consider bitcoin’s worth will proceed to understand, you may actually purchase a home for CA$150,000 within the close to future by shopping for a bitcoin proper now.
You have introduced Bitcoin, a taboo topic, into the fold as Mayor of Vancouver, and also you’ve stated that doing so would possibly result in your not getting re-elected. Have you ever ever thought of that the alternative may be true, that perhaps by embracing Bitcoin the folks of Vancouver will wish to re-elect you?
I am not too involved about that. I’ve no want to be a premier or prime minister. I am not a politician, although I am sitting on this position, which I actually honor, worth and take very critically. However the aim was by no means to be standard. The aim was by no means to get re-elected. The aim was to do what I believed is correct for the way forward for the Metropolis of Vancouver.
And so I could not sit again any longer and ignore this as a result of I actually consider that this units town up for the subsequent hundred years. Am I proper? We do not know, however we have now a reasonably good feeling, and I actually consider in it.
I feel voters, residents — it does not matter what facet of the political spectrum you sit on — are sick of politicians who do stuff simply to get re-elected. They need folks to do what they consider is correct, and I consider that is proper. If we do not get re-elected due to it, I can personally maintain my head up excessive and say, “You already know what? We caught to our values and we did what’s proper.” If it really works out, nice. I truly assume it may work out, although.
It looks like a progressive metropolis like Vancouver — the primary metropolis in Canada to have a Bitcoin ATM — needs to be in favor of Bitcoin. Nevertheless, the earlier mayor tried to ban Bitcoin ATMs within the metropolis. Was there a response from the Vancouver group when the mayor did this?
I did not observe it too intently on the time, so I do not know. I can not touch upon it. What I can touch upon is we do have lots of politicians who will make coverage up based mostly on advantage signaling versus knowledge. We’re an information pushed administration, and we care in regards to the future prosperity of our metropolis.
I feel the excellence right here is we select to have probably the most influence — we’re extra involved in regards to the steak than the sizzle. If somebody could make an argument on why it is a dangerous concept based mostly on knowledge, we’ll take heed to it. We’d have it fallacious, however I can let you know nobody has been capable of assault our Bitcoin stance with knowledge.
Bitcoin might be form of tough to make use of technically. So, for example, in an ideal world, perhaps Bitcoin turns into authorized tender in Vancouver sooner or later, or if there’s simply better adoption of it, do you are worried in regards to the technical difficulties related to utilizing Bitcoin? Would the Vancouver metropolis authorities ever become involved in educating its Vancouver residents about Bitcoin?
It is not one of many core providers we offer as a metropolis, so I do not see us taking place the academic rabbit gap. We’ll depart it as much as different specialists.
If the business makes Bitcoin less complicated to make use of, so many extra teams and people will simply hop on the bandwagon. And you already know it is coming as a result of there are lots of people engaged on this proper now.
I am not an knowledgeable, however once I, once I hear about a few of the issues which are taking place on Layer 2s and the Lightning Community, I see a future the place that is seamless. When folks go right into a Walgreens they usually purchase a sweet bar, they gained’t take into consideration how they’re paying with Bitcoin. All of the plumbing beneath will occur with out them figuring out, and it may revolutionize the planet.
You have finished a handful of interviews on this subject to date. Is there something that we within the media haven’t requested you but that you simply’d like to debate or level out?
Sure, I’d wish to make a normal name out and never only for town of Vancouver. It is for each single metropolis and province and state and jurisdiction and canton, and nation on the planet.
Now we have to get the schooling on the market, which remains to be a tough problem. Some folks within the media have made the remark that what we’re doing proper now could be extra advantage signaling, as a result of we have now the hope of constructing this occur. That is incorrect, although.
We’d like Bitcoin supporters to start out pumping the true narrative of why bitcoin is a sound monetary asset. It is the very best performing asset within the final 16 years on the planet. And we’re not merchants, so when you’re not seeking to day commerce, the entire volatility does not matter.
We have to begin getting that narrative out, however not from me, from the group. We have to let our elected officers know this as a result of they are not going to do something till folks hit them with knowledge and inform our legislators that they need this.
We’re doing this as a result of we consider in it. We wish to get forward of it. We wish to arrange town for the subsequent 100 years, and that is why we’re keen to take political danger to do that. However we want assist. So, in case your viewers may also help us push that narrative with our provincial authorities and of their jurisdictions, as nicely, that might be nice.
If folks come onboard and see how bitcoin can scale back a few of the monetary stress of their lives, do you assume Vancouver transforms right into a pro-Bitcoin metropolis comparatively rapidly?
Sure.
I am going again to my sister-in-law, who if she watches the video she’s gonna punch me within the face. About 13 years in the past, she was afraid of getting an iPhone. She did not perceive the expertise. It was a psychological block.
Then, she jumped on the bandwagon like everybody else, as a result of all her buddies had iPhones. It is ridiculous now to assume that individuals had been afraid of iPhones, proper?
Will Bitcoin give us hope? Completely.
I am going again to the Metropolis of Vancouver and why that is so essential. The Metropolis of Vancouver exists in the identical circumstances as everybody else does. Whereas folks cannot afford a house or they’re fighting groceries, we have now a finances.
Now we have to rent law enforcement officials, firefighters, engineers, and we’re residing in an surroundings the place our foreign money is getting debased and we won’t improve taxes at a fee that retains up with that. We do not wish to reduce providers, and so Bitcoin offers us hope the place we are able to repair our monetary state, our steadiness sheet.
And that may truly assist us run this metropolis for the subsequent hundred years. I feel when folks perceive Bitcoin they usually begin to undertake it, they’ll have hope, as nicely, as a result of they’ll understand their buying energy goes up, which is a good factor.